Sunday, September 28, 2008

Man Builds Noahʼs Ark to Exact Scale Given in Bible









Working Replica of Noah's Ark Opened In SCHAGEN, Netherlands.

The massive central door in the side of Noah's Ark was opened for the first crowd of curious townsfolk to behold the wonder. Of course, it's only a replica of the biblical Ark , built by Dutch Creationist Johan Huibers as a testament to his faith in the literal truth of the Bible. The ark is 150 cubits long, 30 cubits high and 20 cubits wide. That's two-thirds the length of a football field and as high as a three-story house. Life-size models of giraffes, elephants, lions, crocodiles, zebras, bison and other animals greet visitors as they arrive in the main hold. A contractor by trade, Huibers built the ark of cedar and pine. Biblical scholars debate exactly what the wood used by Noah would have been. Huibers did the work mostly with his own hands, using modern tools and with occasional help from his son Roy. Construction began in May 2005. On the uncovered top deck - not quite ready in time for the opening - will come a petting zoo, with baby lambs and chickens, and goats, and one camel. Visitors on the first day were stunned. 'It's past comprehension', said Mary Louise Starosciak, who happened to be bicycling by with her husband while on vacation when they saw the ark looming over the local landscape. 'I know the story of Noah, but I had no idea the boat would have been so big.' There is enough space near the keel for a 50-seat film theater where kids can watch a video that tells the story of Noah and his ark. Huibers, a Christian man, said he hopes the project will renew interest in Christianity in the Netherlands, where church going has fallen dramatically in the past 50 years.

150 comments:

NaNcY said...

big boat!

Litl-Luther said...

Yes it is!

Thanks for stopping by Nancy!

Triston

Martin Stickland said...

wow amazing!

Thnaks for the elephant photo on my blog, as you say, very apt and very funny!

Iamskid said...

God Bless you sir! What an awesome testimony to your faith. May people all over this world visit your magnificent work for the Lord.

Iamskid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Litl-Luther said...

Great blog name! : "I AM's Kid"

jlm said...

Great Job! Man that must have been a long hard road to building something so large. God Bless You!

Anonymous said...

I always wondered what the ark would look like. It is huge! Thank you for taking this step for God and showing the world that it was possible for this to happen. May God Bless you and your family.

michelle - oakland tn said...

Amazing & Awesome. What a Wonderful Testimony of your Faith. I have taught Noah's Ark story many of times @ Sunday School, but never could of imagine how big the Ark was until I saw the pictures. I hope I can one day see it in person. Thanks for all your hard work.

Darlene said...

Absolutely awesome! I only wish I could see it in person, but since I am in the USA it will probably never happen. Keep up the good work. I know God will use this for His glory. Darlene/Alabama, USA

Anonymous said...

This is amazing! Hopefully with the recent release of the movie Evan Almighty, coupled with this leap of faith that you felt you should take, maybe people will reexamine their beliefs! God bless you and all that you do!

Tomme73 said...

Not to burst any bubbles, but the dimensions in the story are wrong. The ark, as commanded by God, was 450Lx75Wx45H feet, or 300Lx50Wx30H cubits. That makes it much larger than stated in the article. "Genesis 6:15
And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits."

Tomme73 said...

From the pictures, it looks like he got it right.

Anonymous said...

This is amazing. I teach Sunday School and just got through teaching about Noah to my 6 & 7 year olds. It reminds me that God can use us in many ways if only we will listen. I am sure MANY people will be touched and drawn to Jesus through this adventure.

Anonymous said...

A radio talk show from Birmingham AL were talking about the work youve done today and i had to check it out all i can say is amazing. Thanks for doing such a wonderful thing, what a testement to the Lord.

Anonymous said...

Excellent work! I too heard about the story from a U.S. syndicated radio show - Rick & Bubba based in Alabama. They placed your link on their website (www.rickandbubba.com). I have known the story of Noah's Ark all of my life and it was always hard to imagine the size of the ark. This puts things into perspective. God bless you as you spread the gospel.
Angela/Alabama

Anonymous said...

well i too heard about you from the rivk and bubba show.two great men sent from God.i have allways had diubts about the size being able to carry the ''cargo''.you proved it to me.thank you for your work

Anonymous said...

I too heard about your ark today by listening to the Rick & Bubba radio show in Birmingham, AL. It is wonderful to see and read about. May God bless you for all your hard work. Perhaps you could contact the radio show and do an interview one morning.

Anonymous said...

i also heard about the replica of the ark you built on rickandbubba,i hope you get in touch with them i am sure they would have you on the show i would love too hear what made you built his replica of a great mans works,it is good to see a good story for a change god bless you and keep on spreading the word and pray for us yanks we need it more than ever don cullman,al

EverlyAnn said...

I noticed there are no lifeboats - don't forget what happened to the Titanic! What's next? A prototype of the parting of the Red Sea? Gonna need a lotta water for that one. Go, fundies! You've never proven anything yet :)

EverlyAnn said...

Hey - where are the lifeboats? Don't forget what happened to the Titanic, you over-confident fundies! What's next- a prototype of the parting of the Red Sea? Gonna need a lotta water for that one. And quick - contact Ticketmaster and reserve a seat on Ark II - they're going fast!

EverlyAnn said...

Sorry I posted twice - but I'm trying to save the world; it's my mission in life!

Litl-Luther said...

Thanks for the comments everyone, but I DID NOT BUILD THIS BOAT!! I just posted pictures of it!! It is some guy in the Netherlands who built it.

Blessings,
Triston

Glenda said...

Mr Noah built an ark, the people thought it was a laugh,Mr Noah pleaded so but into the Ark they would not go,the rain came down in torrance(3x)clap,clap and only 8 were saved. The animals went in 2 by 2, the tall giraffe and the kangaroo, they were safely stored away until that great and final day, the rain came down in torrence,clap clap,(x3)and only 8 were saved. When next you see a rain bow,(3) remember God loves you!
I sang this song with my Sunday school class growing up in SA. My USA kids love it too, wish I saw this when I visited the Netherlands.Great job.Shalom

Keith said...

Riiiiight. What's a cubit?

(Apologies if you're too young to get that.)

EverlyAnn said...

Keith,

A "cubit" is a type of jewel they sell on QVC - resembles a diamond but it's cheap - oh wait, that's CUBIC zirconia.

Was is really necessary for Noah to bring mosquitos on that big old ship?

EverlyAnn said...

Glenda, while your intentions may have been good, the song "Welcome to the Jungle" by Guns n Roses would have had a more practical impact on those children.

Carmen Jones, Alabama, USA said...

I heard about this on the Rick and Bubba Show, a radio show based out of Birmingham, AL, USA. What an awesome thing you've done, and even more awesome is that you did it mostly by yourself. It's never occurred to me why anyone hasn't tried to replicate the Ark before, but you've shown that it can and has been done and for that, you deserve applause! God bless you!

3 times a mom said...

i heard about this on rick & bubba this morning as well and was so disappointed that it was in the netherlands. i don't think we'll be making that trip anytime soon, but i'm still so thankful that it exists. PTL!

Heather Nelson said...

That is awesome!! Great job!! Thank you for sharing your faith in the infallibile Word of God! I know that your labor was not in vain my brother!!
Love in Christ,
Heather :)

Julie Y said...

Thanks, Triston, for sharing photos of that project; it looks amazing! I hope it accomplishes what the builder hopes in the Netherlands -- and beyond.

danieltomlinson said...

That's awesome! Good work hardly seems adequate!

Mika said...

I too got to your blog from the Birmingham, AL's "Rick and Bubba" show's website. Wow. The dedication and time you spent, and $$$. Wow. I pray God will bless you for being a light of His in this dark, dark world. ( I have a lost pinpal in Lichtenvoord that I pray will get to see this and truely feel the presence of God in that place)
Your sister in Christ,

Mika

Tanya said...

Wow - that is great! What a great testimony of your faith!

Anonymous said...

thats a nice boat

Anonymous said...

So people think that's really large enough to house even one of each animal on Earth, plus their food supply?

Did the kangaroos make it all the way from Australia? Did the penguins get there in time? Are you nuts or just desperate to make the Bible literally true?

Try studying a little history, science and have a look at reality.

Anonymous said...

Barring the unlikelihood of being able to support 2 of every animal (not kinds, as "kind" is yet to be properly defined) and 8 humans in an ark even that size, and barring even the question of the animals that existed on remote continents and islands, Is a boat that size seaworthy? No wooden vessel has been known to exist at the size of the ark and be able to float.

Additionally, barring the "Gopher wood" as we don't know just what the hell gopher wood is, how was it built? I see steel beams running through it, and that's a biblical no-no. The bible, particularly those parts, is nothing if not insanely attentive to detail. If it's got so much as a single nail (and it can't be proven that there were nails), It'll have to be given a no-go.

Other than that, though, I'm impressed!

Anonymous said...

THIS IS TRULY AMAZING ! WHAT A WONDERFUL WAY TO SHOW YOUR FAITH TO CHRIST. MY CHILDREN LOVED IT AND SO DID I. I KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE WILL BE TOUCHED BY YOUR FAITH IN GOD. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK !

Anonymous said...

You ROCK! What a feat...to bad it's been already done. But what a great visual. God Bless You!! Dave.

Anonymous said...

What an amazing accomplishment. What a good way to spread the gospel! The real Noah's ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits high, and 30 cubits wide. More than enough room for 2 of each animal, and for food. For a detailed study guide see John Woodmorappe's book "Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study Guide" This link also has some great info as well http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp

Mary H. said...

With GOD nothing is impossible...I hope to see your Noah's ark someday. GOD BLESS YOU!!!

Michael said...

Amazing, absolutely amazing. Congratulations to the builder and many thanks to he who posted the photos. Engineers have learned the dimensions given for the ark are the most stable design for a non powered boat adrift at sea. There is one most important possibility that naysayers completely overlook. There are many animals that hibernate. Some for as long six months in severe climates. Therefore it is possible that many or all of the animals on the ark hibernated at alternating periods thereby requiring far less food than if they were awake the entire trip. Also, if the animals God sent to the ark were juvenile they would have been much smaller to begin with. After the flood animals might have floated on huge "islands" of floating debris which in time degraded and fell to the bottom of the ocean. Some will say impossible, but for a God who can create an entire planet merely by speaking it into existence, keeping a handful of animals safe in an ark is child's play.

http://www.nwcreation.net/mtsthelens.html

http://www.layevangelism.com/advtxbk/sections/sect-10/sec10-5.htm

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't the blog title be Man Builds Noah's Ark to Half Scale Given in Bible"?

B Leadbetter, Hanson Ma USA said...

Simply Amazing! God will Bless the works of your hands for sure!

robiss said...

impressive... but does it even FLOAT..!!..??

Dee Deutsch said...

Amazing! Wish I could visit it! The Bible is real, and to see someone "prove" a piece of it, only makes God smile I'm sure!

Berni Campos, Illinois said...

God is Good, all the time! God bless the builder! Whether his dimensions are right, or built to half scale, he gets an "A" for effort. I only wish I could see it one day. Maybe one day it will set sail for the USA...

Anonymous said...

For all who are interested - here's the website of the builder. It does say that it's half scale...

http://www.arkvannoach.com/language/en/

Litl-Luther said...

Thank you for the web site of the actual builder. That is very helpful!

Triston

AL said...

WISH I COULD GO ON THAT BOAT.
ONCE IN A LIFE TIME IT WOULD BE.

Anonymous said...

I just received the link to this on a homeschool loop, and it's amazing. What a testimony to the builder's faith.

Anonymous said...

Ok...so this is pretty cool to see. But if this is such a testimony to the builders faith...why is it perched on a barge? Didn't he believe it would float or is there some other reason?

lorenzothellama said...

I thought it was supposed to be of Gopher wood, whatever that is.

Is there plently of place to store the dung?

Litl-Luther said...

Hey Lorenzo,

The Bible does say Gopher wood; there are questions about what type of wood that actually is.

Perhaps the dung was thrown overboard. The Bible doesn't say, but isn’t that what you would do with it if you were confined with all those animals for such a long period of time? That seems reasonable to me.

PS: I found out later that this modern-day ark is actually built to roughly half scale of Noah’s.

ibc said...

Nope, too small.

Two of every creature would never fit in that little dinghy! C'mon! Think BIG!!!

God is Great!

Litl-Luther said...

Hey ibc,

It turns out that this "ark" was built to about half-scale.

Gabriel Rufus said...

Great!! Awesome idea. You have brought a part of the Bible history to life. You should now have an audio visual depicting the whole story and do it in languages. Should you need any help with this, contact me at gabrielrufus@christiandubbing.com. We specialize in foreign language dubbing work and are located in California, USA.
God bless your project.

Mari said...

WOW! This is awesome just to see pictures! So amazing to see.Thank you!!

Geo said...

Well, thank you for your effort which does prove that even such a huge boat would not have been even remotely sufficient to house pairs of all the species on earth nor, specially, the 7 pairs of each species which another part of the Bible claims Noah took on board.

I'm so sorry that you like yourself so little that you must imagine yourself special in the eyes of an imaginary being. May goodness bless you!

ThatNate.com said...

This is very cool!

I wish I could take a trip to the Netherlands to see! Maybe someday. :)

Anonymous said...

Wow this is awesome! I don't know why so may people go out of their way to DISBELIEVE things! Back in Noah's day Iam sure they didn't have all the animal spieces that are here today!

Kate Dolan said...

I find it really curious that the non-believers feel the need to be so caustic and vehement in their responses. It's almost as if they feel the need to defend their disbelief...
Their bitterness makes me really pity them. I've never felt the need to insult someone over different beliefs, or lack thereof. Anyone harboring that bitterness cannot be very happy.

Thank you Litl-Luther for sharing this story and providing a forum for discussion.

Anonymous said...

Now where to put those dinosaurs... hmmm.

Anonymous said...

this is awesome. i would like to thank my beautiful friend Chris for showing me this work of God and his true beauty in play. This ark is miraculous.

Anonymous said...

THIS IS AMAZING! GOOD JOB. NOAH'S ORIGINAL ARK WAS ACTUALLY FOUND, COPY & PASTE THE LINK BELOW
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm OR GO TO ARKDISCOVERY.COM

Anonymous said...

HA HA! People actually believe that you can get two of each kind of every animal on the planet in to that boat?!

And I though the human race was intelligent.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a waste of wood...could've used that wood for something more productive, instead of for fantasies.

Anonymous said...

in order to fit two types of every animal in the world on a boat that size each animal would only get a one square foot space to stand in. and by type I mean a wolf counts as every kind of dog species, lions count as all cats so on and so forth. Even those of you with blind faith should be able to see the problem with this.

Anonymous said...

Guess what! It totally isn't full size, at all! It's probably half as big.

Anonymous said...

Bless this blessed boat may it be a testament to the testament which the lord baby jesus christ of Nazareth of the house of david would bless with his might from the manger. Finally! Science will see that Giraffes and crocodiles were meant to live together in harmony! That the Lion will lie down with the Lamb and the Tyrannosaurus will bed with the baby oxen! For smite the non-believer who discounts the bounty and variety of animals available during biblical times! Nor should thou doubt the knowledge of taxonomy dichotomy for which the prophet Noah most certainly had! Amoungthe Alligatoridae which accompanied the prophet Noah on his voyage, the following were witnessed:

Leidyosuchus (extinct)
+ Genus Deinosuchus (extinct)
+ Subfamily Alligatorinae
# Genus Albertochampsa (extinct)
# Genus Chrysochampsa (extinct)
# Genus Hassiacosuchus (extinct)
# Genus Navahosuchus (extinct)
# Genus Ceratosuchus (extinct)
# Genus Allognathosuchus (extinct)
# Genus Hispanochampsa (extinct)
# Genus Arambourgia (extinct)
# Genus Procaimanoidea (extinct)
# Genus Wannaganosuchus (extinct)
# Genus Alligator
* Alligator prenasalis (extinct)
* Alligator mcgrewi (extinct)
* Alligator olseni (extinct)
* Chinese Alligator, Alligator sinensis
* Alligator mefferdi (extinct)
* American Alligator, Alligator mississippiensis
+ Subfamily Caimaninae
# Genus Necrosuchus (extinct)
# Genus Eocaiman (extinct)
# Genus Paleosuchus
* Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, Paleosuchus palpebrosus
* Smooth-fronted Caiman, Paleosuchus trigonatus
# Genus Purussaurus (extinct)
# Genus Mourasuchus (extinct)
# Genus Orthogenysuchus (extinct)
# Genus Caiman
* Yacare Caiman, Caiman yacare
* Spectacled Caiman, Caiman crocodilus
o Rio Apaporis Caiman, C. c. apaporiensis
o Brown Caiman, C. c. fuscus
* Caiman lutescans (extinct)
* Caiman sorontans[citation needed] (extinct) - Not reported in the literature, probably a 'nomen nudum'
* Broad-snouted Caiman, Caiman latirostris
# Genus Melanosuchus
* Melanosuchus fisheri (extinct)
* Black Caiman, Melanosuchus niger


Truly a wonder that the Lord made the volume of this boat larger than that of its circumference!

Blessed also be to Saint Isidore of Seville, inventor of the internet so that we as Christians can share in the true knowledge of god! Let us pray together brothers and sisters, let us pray!

Anonymous said...

Big boat, but I think you're going to have a problem fitting 2 of every animal (even the ones from the Americas and Oceania, which they didn't know about) on it.

Even if you did manage that, feeding (for forty days and then again after all life was killed) and inbreeding would make that a boat of the damned.

RevSkull said...

Beautiful. Well Done! Bravo!

Now, at last, people will be able to see that the whole ark story is a myth. With millions
of species to collect, it was always one of the most storybook parts of the collections of myths in the bible.

zionred said...

anonymous...

nothing is impossible with God

Anonymous said...

Quoting Anon: "this is awesome. i would like to thank my beautiful friend Chris for showing me this work of God and his true beauty in play. This ark is miraculous."

Um...no. Maybe it will accomplish the purpose the builder claims. Maybe people will start reading their Bibles, thinking about God, etc. That would be good.

But...This is NOT a work of God. A man built this. (You can see him in the picture.) This is NOT miraculous. See any online dictionary for the definition of "miraculous." (I suspect that this can be explained.) Please, temper your emotions with intelligence and stop confusing hysteria with spirituality.

IMHO: This is a great testament to one man's skill and diligence. The boat is beautiful. But not miraculous.

sam said...

Just so you know, theres a bigger one in Hong Kong, its a religious youth hostle and a tourist attractiong. I would know cause I helped build it. =P (Though it wouldnt float as its concrete and cemented to the ground). xO

Anonymous said...

The "boat" was built on a barge hull... that's because a wooden boat of that size would sink as fast as the fictional bible story.

ukulelemike said...

Really? Odd that steel sips of much larger proportions can float just fine, while wood, which is naturally more bouyant, would sink? Please.

Anonymous said...

You dumbass, that couldn't hold two of every mammal, much less every land animal, even if I concede that God fed the animals and prevented them from mauling each other. During the course of this project you should have taken two seconds to realize how fucking stupid the story is.

Anonymous said...

I feel bad for people who waste so much time doing unproductive things. Whats next on his fairy tale adventure...Santas village to scale? Please people use your mind and realize religion poisons.

Anonymous said...

I praise God and thank him for your achievement. May God bless you and Christianity there be greatly multilied. Thanks & Lord bless, Jim Derr,Tx.

Anonymous said...

maybe now we can put all the religious fanatics inside and send them out into the ocean :)

Anonymous said...

Hah, multilied

Anonymous said...

God inspires man to build a boat.

Guess what man built with our own inspiration?

http://www.fly.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/international-space-station.jpg


Paste that link into your browser. Look at that photo and take the first step toward self-determination.

Anonymous said...

That is incredible. May God bless you on your accomplishment.

Anonymous said...

I am amazed that someone with the mathematical, mechanical and carpentry skills required to build that boat still lacks the common sense to realize that it could not possibly contain 1% of all of the land animals on the planet, let alone all of the feed that 1% would require in the first 4 hours (not to mention the dung). Seems to me he just managed to dramatically prove that the story is a myth (a myth that was around way before the Bible was ever written, by the way. It's called the Epic of Gilgamesh -- although there are other, similar myths from pretty much every primative culture on the planet).

Anonymous said...

I don't suppose anyone has checked if this thing is actually seaworthy?

I am a Christian, but I am still confused how people can actually believe in the reality of the flood story. Just consider how long it took to build this smaller replica, and with modern tools. And Noah built this with no modern tools or materials and it was supposed to be seaworthy? How long did he take to do this?

Anonymous said...

How can people believe it?

2+2=5 because god makes it so.

Anonymous said...

On the fifth day I laid out her exterior.
It was a field in area,
its walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height,
the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times It cubits each.
I laid out its (interior) structure and drew a picture of it (?).
I provided it with six decks,
thus dividing it into seven (levels).
The inside of it I divided into nine (compartments).
I drove plugs (to keep out) water in its middle part.
I saw to the punting poles and laid in what was necessary.
Three times 3,600 (units) of raw bitumen I poured into the
bitumen kiln,
three times 3,600 (units of) pitch ...into it,
there were three times 3,600 porters of casks who carried (vege-
table) oil,
apart from the 3,600 (units of) oil which they consumed (!)
and two times 3,600 (units of) oil which the boatman stored
away.

AND

When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a swallow and released it.
The swallow went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.
Then I sent out everything in all directions and sacrificed
(a sheep).



Just a snippet from the Epic of Gilgamesh, at least 2500 years b.c. And this is just one of a multitude of similiars.

The comments refering to glory and greatness attached to this act of global destruction and mass murder are ultimately wicked. Do the theistic flock not see what they are grandeuring? Worshipping an individual that creates premeditated slaughter is surely something for a rational Human bieng to resist on a moral level no matter how much they want the glossy bits to help them negotiate the brutal ups and downs of life.

And to comment briefly on the project, which was my intention.

The labour and material for this would be much more appreciated by the homeless and needy in assisting them to negotiate their ups and downs in life also.

Incidently, i wonder if there is an admission fee, refreshments and merchandise? I susspect so.

And in the name of carpentry i declare this.....a fantastic achievement of carpentry.

People please do some research and be critical before you waste the only life you get and wish it away.

Litl-Luther said...

It is amazing to me how many of you atheists are such utter wimps you leave your comments almost exclusively as "anonymous". Anyone who can't\won't leave their name is not worthy of a response nor is anything they've said worth noting.

I wish you godless people would develop some backbone!

Paul from England said...

Ok Litl-Luther, i do have a name and i do care what you think about my post. So i hope you accept my appologie.
Actually the posting format did confuse me a little, so im more guilty of being tired and stupid than trying to conceal my identity.

As for my backbone, it is feeling the stress of modern life. In our ever increasing life expectancy our spine is proving a little to incompetent to provide the support needed.
In a few hundred thousand years this might come to be more robust i expect.
But for now i use pillows to comfort me.

Playfull teasing aside, im not here to cause any offence i just love to engage in discussion.

Regards, Paul.

p.s Have you visited the Ark?

Cygnet said...

Anonymous: Perhaps the homeless should practice their faith to receive their blessings.

Paul from England said...

Ah, now i see why being annonymous just isn't going to work.


Cygnet it is I.
So your cosy life is attributed to prayer and worship is it?
Anybody less well off is deserving of their misfortune?

Do i misunderstand you?

Paul

Litl-Luther said...

Hi Paul,
Thanks for using your name. I haven't tried to avoid you. Actually, I was in Hyderabad, India and just got back to Kathmandu about 30 minutes ago. I haven't had email access for the last few days. In answer to your question, no I've never been to the ark.

I also enjoy engaging in discussion. What would you like to talk about?

BTW: I do believe all the animals could easily fit in the ark because I believe the flood was probably localized to the known world at that time. "World" does not always mean the whole globe in the Bible. My guess is that places like Australia and the Americas were unaffected.

BTW

Paul from England said...

Hi Luther.
Of course i didn't think you was avoiding me, i too have been busy.

I have many problems with the biblical flood story, i find it particualy difficult to accept that Noah was six hundred years old.
I also find it disturbing that God would wish to destroy all life save Noah's family.
All life would mean innocent children who at such a young age could not have commited any violent or loathsome deeds(in the eyes of God).

As for your suspicion that the flood could have been local, i think the account clearly states it was global. I don't think the author could be more clear on that matter.
In any case if it was local what would have been the point of building an ark? Could they not have just left the area. They had plenty of time to do so.

It has crossed my mind also that if the waters covered the mountains of the Mesopatamian region then this would have had to be a global event, would it not?

It seems the more people try to verify it the more they have to make up in order for it to be possible.

I couldn't care less wether the story is a factual event or not, but it has to be scrutinised and approached critically. And the claims are fantastical and that is what probably intrigues me to learn more. But if the story fails to hold water then it is delusional to still want or hope it to be true.

I hope you have the time to engage me, i look forward to your reply.

Paul

Pul from England said...

I would like Cygnet to reply to my questions a couple of posts ago.
Can you do that for me please Cygney.

I don't mean to be bullyish i just can't figure out if you was being sarcastic or wether that is your view.

Thanks

Paul

Litl-Luther said...

Hi Paul,
I'm glad you wrote. I look forward to engaging with you.

The mountain upon which the ark was to finally rest in the biblical account is "Ararat", which, as I understand it, is 16,000 feet high today. However, geologists agree, the mountain would have been much lower at that time. What "time" that was is another question altogether. I am not against the possiblity that it was many thousands or even millions of years ago. Any how, your point is a very good one because even if the mountain was only say 5000 feet above sea level at that time, mathmaticians could probably calculate how much of the earth would have to be covered by a deluge for the water to reach such a height. I think it is a good question but probably unanswerable without knowing how high the mountain would have been at that time.

I have three reasons for leaning toward a localized flood:
1. World often does not mean the whole globe. Take this statement by Paul for instance: "the gospel, 6which has come to you, as it has also in all the world..." Col. 1:6-7) In reality, the Gospel had only gone in "all the known world"--mainly just modern Turkey!
2. The proximity of the Ark's landing place: Mt. Ararat is only 750 miles northeast of Jerusalem! If this was a global event, why did everything, including the ark, remain in such a confined area?
3. God had not scattered people throughout the earth at that time. In the biblical account, the scattering of people and giving them multiple languages does not happen till Genesis 11. However, the ark-even is Genesis 6. Again, I believe this gives more evidence that the flood would have been localized because the people were still in that local part of the world.

As to your point on why bother building the ark if it was a local flood (after all, Noah had plenty of time to get out of the area)? That's easy: The ark was not just to save Noah, his family and the animals. It was also as a witness to that generation, and to ours, of the destruction that awaits all who reject God's offer of salvation. That is how is appears that Jesus and the apostle Peter described the significance of the ark-event (Matthew 24:37-44; 2 Peter 2:5-9)

Paul from England said...

Thankyou for your speedy reply. Much appreciated.

Though not addressing all i posed i can see you have thought deeply about your reply. And you have made me have a good little think!

I just want to say before we discuss the timeline any further i think you are probably going to have to state your position on this a little more.
Either, we take "years" to mean years, or, we have to have some other way ( if there is a reliable one) to put this account in a realistic chronological position.
This relates to what i said earlier about the age of Noah.
Six hundred years of age is a wild statement to make when producing an historical document.

Moving on, for now, i will try to keep quoting to a minimum but i think it is necessary here to do so:

"For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die"

Apart from the obvious tone of this statement, i see no reason to think this was a localised event. I take into consideration what you say about "world not always meaning the whole globe, in the bible" but it is clearly stating all under heaven shall feel the force of this act. All living things is quite explicit.
And pointing out inadequate use of the word "globe or world" in other books from the bible doesn't make it true for Genesis.
Genesis has to be right. There would never be another opportunity to get it right.

Even if the "whole world" to the author was the immediate geography, it certainly wasn't to God, and his failed project.
His intention was to wipe the slate clean and start anew.

I'm not sure what it says about the flood to have the ark remain 750 miles from jerusalem.
In all honestly a large scale deluge would destroy any timber made vessel, no matter what it's design was.
Also what is it you mean by "everything" remaining in such a confined area?

Again, on your next point, without understanding what timeline we are working to, your claim, or rather what you understand from scripture, is that Humans didn't inhabit the rest of the Earth at the time that God forewarned Noah of his intentions.
I believe it is said to be 120 years prior to him commencing the destruction, but again, if years are not going to be our measuring stick, this isn't reliable.
In any case, the date for modern Humans is being pushed back annually and the Indus Valley was heavily populated(for the time)and so too was Sumer at around the time the flood story is said to have arisen.

And just to go back to my first post on the Epic of Gilgamesh.
I have no doubt that you are very familiar with it.
Your thoughts?

I hope i havn't rushed this reply towards the end as i have been called away ( and i don't recall seeing an edit button), but i know you will forgive me any mistakes.

Thanks again Luther.

Best regards, Paul

Shrap eyes said...

Paul from England-I have one question for you! Why in the world are you trying so hard to prove this wrong! Do you really have that much time on your hands. Do you really think that your words are going to change people's mind on weather or not God exsist! I mean really, your heart has been stirred by the holy spirit to spend this much time on this subject. Ever read the book "The Case for Christ" Pick it up and lets chat after you have read the the book!! I just have a little advise for you my friend! Dont deny God, when Jesus comes back you are going to wish you were on the good side! PS. Yes I love the Lord! :O) And you my friend will never ever stop me! Many blessings to you and your search for the truth!!

Litl-Luther said...

Hi Paul,
I take the age of Noah literally (600 years seeming wild or no, I believe it), as well as I take it that he spent a literal 100 more or less years to build the ark. What I meant by my position on "years" is that there are young earth and old earth theories among Christians. The young earth people would say the earth is probably no more than 10 thousand years old. The old earth people maintain that the earth could be many millions of years old and therefore this adventure of Noahs did not necessarily happen 6000 years ago. Perhaps it was 6 million years ago, and when God inspired Moses to write Genesis, God filled him in on the details of this ancient story. 6000 years versus 6 millions years would certainly adjust the height of Mt. Ararat, and therefore the depth of the flood!

I understand your concern about the language. And you're right: It does sound like God was wiping out everything. But we use the Bible to interpret the Bible. Again a text from Paul: "the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister." (Col. 1:20). Either Paul was a liar and those first century Christians would have pointed this fact out, or "every creature under heaven" is simply a poetic and forceful way of speaking. I take in the Genesis account that God could speak the way He did, though he was not intending to kill every creature (and not just the fish were spared).

What I meant by “confined area” is that Noah's starting point and ending point are in the same basic geographical area, which seems strange in a global phenomenon.

If the Noah-event is quite ancient, then humans would not have migrated far by this point. I believe a case can be made for that in scripture by the order Genesis puts for the flood (chapter 6) and migration of peoples (chapter 11). I do believe the Bible; it's my guide and authority.

Again if the Noah-event is quite ancient, then the "Epic of Gilgamesh" is actually a support to it, not its destruction. If the Noah flood is the original, oldest flood story, and migration of peoples took place after that, then it makes sense that these "oral" cultures would have passed on their ancient stories. Over the millennia the stories would have no doubt been corrupted. The epic of Gilgamesh may well be the Noah-event, told in oral cultures thousands of years after the fact. Epics likes these do not concern me. Rather, they excite me. I think it gives more credibility to the Noah-event.

I really appreciate your gentle tone. Those who rant and rave (like many of the atheists who have commented) betray their own insecurities.

Best regards,
-L-luther

Paul from England said...

Hello Shrap eyes,

I think trying to prove something wrong is a very sound way of verifying something to be true, don't you.
Like the saying goes "scientists don't try to prove things, they fail to disprove things".
Having an answer before you start is corrupting the integrity of your critical intentions.

Injustice stirrs my heart btw, not the supernatural.
I find your tone slightly more aggresive than is necessary and if you would like to "join in " i would be delighted, but giving me advice on life isn't becoming.

I don't seek to change anybodys mind, except my own.

I havn't read "the case for christ" so i will follow that lead up as soon as i can.
But i invite you to share it's main points, if that's ok with you.

Paul

Paul from England said...

Hello again Luther,

I must say i am enjoying this discussion.
And thankyou for your warm nature towards me.

I must admit, i did not expect you to accept the age of Noah (and his descendants presumably) to be fact.
Can you think of a plausible reason why we don't see that life expectancy now?

I think the implications of supporting a young Earth theory(?) are just too mind boggling to comprehend, and not surprisingly, there is zero evidence for it at all. On the contrary.
So we can at least move further back in time together on this one!
Obviously though, we can't go back too far as evidence exists to put an approximate date on modern Humans(Homo-Sapien).
This would be 120,000-140,000 y.a, according to fossils found to date, and is bolstered by the molecular/genetic results, which indicates 200,000y since we deviated on this path.
I agree that millions of years ago the geography of the area would have been different, maybe much different than it is today, but we cannot say at this point that anatomically identical Humans existed then, let alone have language, agriculture and intelligence.

I feel like we are in a bit of a tangle as we don't have a clue when the event is supposed to have happened?


Paul

Litl-Luther said...

Hi Paul,

Good point on the age of man. Then perhaps at maximum the Noah event may have been 100,000 years ago. Even so, as we see fossil records for other species living much earlier in time than man, it seems reasonable to me that dinosaurs were already extinct and various animals had already spread out across the continents, but man was still in the general geographic area of Noah at the time of the flood. This would be my explanation for instance on why Kangaroos are only found in Australia. I’m confident they were not onboard the ark.

I believe the Bible, and I take all the miraculous events in the Bible to be true. God is the one who set the ‘laws of nature’ in motion and He can work within them or outside of them as He sees fit. Jesus Himself showed his sovereignty over the law of gravity for instance when he walked on water, ascended into the clouds, etc.

When something we have thought to be true is disproved by science, first I would see if science has got it wrong, but if all indicators appear that they got it right, then I look at where we have got it wrong, where we have misunderstood Scripture (thus my leaning toward an old earth).

Since I believe Scripture, this is my take on Noah getting so old: Right before the flood, the genealogies in the Bible show people living hundreds of years. Then right before the flood, God pronounces would seem to be curse on men saying “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3) Until this point God was allowing people to live for hundreds of years. At this point He basically says enough is enough. I’m going to wipe them out, start over, and this time I’m not going to let them live more than 120 years. And so we see with the ages of Noah’s sons, and the generations that follow, a gradual shortening of life span, till people don’t live more than 120 years. How God is able to do this (go from giving man 900 years in the beginning down to what we have today), I don’t know. But I do believe it because He is God; He is eternal Himself. All life comes from Him. He gave us our lives and He can determine how many years we get. I don’t find any of this out of the scope of reason if indeed God is the all-powerful Creator He maintains to be. All that is to say, the plausible reason I see for us having shorter life expectancies today than it was before the time of Noah is God Himself. He determined to shorten our lives.

I very much am enjoying this dialogue as well. Thank you for all you’ve contributed to it Paul.

Anonymous said...

It is safe to assume that several women on the planet were pregnant at the time of the flood. Does that make God an abortionist?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

WOW.... what a great........waste of time. Really, I'm not a christian, but it seems to me that if you don't plan to use this boat, you have wasted a lot. Imagine how many people could have been helped, in needy times, with the cost spent in wood alone. If your god is real, he would be displeased with your wastefulness.

G.R.C. said...

Anonymous said...
So people think that's really large enough to house even one of each animal on Earth, plus their food supply?

Did the kangaroos make it all the way from Australia? Did the penguins get there in time? Are you nuts or just desperate to make the Bible literally true?

Try studying a little history, science and have a look at reality.
________________________

ok, first off even known christions belive that once the world was just one big land mass called... dont remember (lol)

so if it was all one big mass then of course Kangaroos would have no trouble getting there, same with the pangys! Plus even now there are Pangys in Africa so they wouldnt have a much trouble as some people might think. and also, there wouldnt have to be one of "every" type a dog. Dogs genes are really easy to play around with so we would realy only need a wolf to start all over again. Its been proven that you 'can' get a african wild dog with just a wolf. (all try to post the article on here sometime) also, with the dinos they wouldnt take the full grown ones, just the babys! (how cute!) same with big animals like lions and tigers, that way they most likly wouldnt be eaten (not good...) so it wouldnt be to hard if they took babys and let them grow up. Also it is very easy to beleive that God can do anything. So, if you believe that. Then why couldnt he put the animals "He" made with just words on a boat?

G.R.C.

G.R.C. said...

Anonymous said...
So people think that's really large enough to house even one of each animal on Earth, plus their food supply?

Did the kangaroos make it all the way from Australia? Did the penguins get there in time? Are you nuts or just desperate to make the Bible literally true?

Try studying a little history, science and have a look at reality.
________________________

ok, first off even known christions belive that once the world was just one big land mass called... dont remember (lol)

so if it was all one big mass then of course Kangaroos would have no trouble getting there, same with the pangys! Plus even now there are Pangys in Africa so they wouldnt have a much trouble as some people might think. and also, there wouldnt have to be one of "every" type a dog. Dogs genes are really easy to play around with so we would realy only need a wolf to start all over again. Its been proven that you 'can' get a african wild dog with just a wolf. (all try to post the article on here sometime) also, with the dinos they wouldnt take the full grown ones, just the babys! (how cute!) same with big animals like lions and tigers, that way they most likly wouldnt be eaten (not good...) so it wouldnt be to hard if they took babys and let them grow up. Also it is very easy to beleive that God can do anything. So, if you believe that. Then why couldnt he put the animals "He" made with just words on a boat?

G.R.C.

G.R.C. said...

Anonymous said...
So people think that's really large enough to house even one of each animal on Earth, plus their food supply?

Did the kangaroos make it all the way from Australia? Did the penguins get there in time? Are you nuts or just desperate to make the Bible literally true?

Try studying a little history, science and have a look at reality.
________________________

ok, first off even known christions belive that once the world was just one big land mass called... dont remember (lol)

so if it was all one big mass then of course Kangaroos would have no trouble getting there, same with the pangys! Plus even now there are Pangys in Africa so they wouldnt have a much trouble as some people might think. and also, there wouldnt have to be one of "every" type a dog. Dogs genes are really easy to play around with so we would realy only need a wolf to start all over again. Its been proven that you 'can' get a african wild dog with just a wolf. (all try to post the article on here sometime) also, with the dinos they wouldnt take the full grown ones, just the babys! (how cute!) same with big animals like lions and tigers, that way they most likly wouldnt be eaten (not good...) so it wouldnt be to hard if they took babys and let them grow up. Also it is very easy to beleive that God can do anything. So, if you believe that. Then why couldnt he put the animals "He" made with just words on a boat?

G.R.C.

G.R.C. said...

Anonymous said...
So people think that's really large enough to house even one of each animal on Earth, plus their food supply?

Did the kangaroos make it all the way from Australia? Did the penguins get there in time? Are you nuts or just desperate to make the Bible literally true?

Try studying a little history, science and have a look at reality.
________________________

ok, first off even known christions belive that once the world was just one big land mass called... dont remember (lol)

so if it was all one big mass then of course Kangaroos would have no trouble getting there, same with the pangys! Plus even now there are Pangys in Africa so they wouldnt have a much trouble as some people might think. and also, there wouldnt have to be one of "every" type a dog. Dogs genes are really easy to play around with so we would realy only need a wolf to start all over again. Its been proven that you 'can' get a african wild dog with just a wolf. (all try to post the article on here sometime) also, with the dinos they wouldnt take the full grown ones, just the babys! (how cute!) same with big animals like lions and tigers, that way they most likly wouldnt be eaten (not good...) so it wouldnt be to hard if they took babys and let them grow up. Also it is very easy to beleive that God can do anything. So, if you believe that. Then why couldnt he put the animals "He" made with just words on a boat?

G.R.C.

111 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Maalie said...

An interesting exercise! That seems an awfully small boat to house the millions of species who required refuge.

I wonder what tools Noah had available at the time? It must have been after the Bronze Age. Oh, such a short, short time for Mankind to have developed (notice how I avoid using the dreaded word "evolved"!) into the diversity that we see today!

Litl-Luther said...

Maalie,
You always seem to assume that all Christians believe it was a worldwide flood, but I've mentioned before that "world" in the Bible does not always mean the whole planet, and that I think it was more likely a flood localized to that part of the earth — that humans had not been scattered throughout the earth yet (that happens in Genesis 11) so it did not need to be worldwide to destroy the human race. Moreover, all the animals on board were probably just those found in that local part of the earth (making the event quite possible indeed, and no kangaroos needed on the ark!).

BTW: Here's a recent discovery: “83 ancient (13,000-year-old) tools of the Clovis people — ice age hunter-gatherers who remain a puzzle to anthropologists....The tools reveal an unexpected level of sophistication.” Isn’t this amazing?! Ancient tools more sophisticated than anthropologists would have ever expected? ...I wonder if Noah might also have had some “unexpected, sophisticated tools” of his own? After all, God told him exactly how to build the ark. Perhaps God also told him the exact tools he would need to build it!

You keep assuming Noah was from the Bronze Age, but actually he was before people scattered throughout the earth (which is surely before the Bronze Age). No one knew how to build a ship before God showed Noah. Perhaps God told him how to make the tools he needed as well. Why is that so unreasonable to you??

Ancient tools link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/ap_on_re_us/ancient_tools

atamotua said...

The first time i saw this in the news articles i think they were saying that it's 1/5 scale... so it's made to scale, but a 1/5 scale.... so in that case it would be 5 times smaller than the real one...

Anonymous said...

even if this was built to scale. the amount of animals, and i mean all animals in the world, would have been impossible to catch.

Maalie said...

>and that I think it was more likely a flood localized to that part of the earth — that humans had not been scattered throughout the earth yet

You think? You mean you don't know? Ah, I see, you can make of it what you like. The bible can mean anything you want it to!

Human diversity as we know it today could not have evolved from a group as small as Noah's family even if it was in the palaeolithic age. It's a genetic impossibility.

Litl-Luther said...

Hi Maalie,
You're right that I don't know. It is quite difficult to make dogmatic statements about things that took place many thousands of years ago. However, you seem to have no problem with certainty about such ancient matters. This is amazing to me, since even the very concept of "evolution" is an unproven theory. How can you be so dogmatic when even your foundational principle is tentative at best?

Thanks for stopping by.

wow gold said...
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wow gold said...
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solomon said...

Hi there,
The noah' arc builder have done an amazing job by bringing the people close to god.God bles him, but sadly to say he depicted the details of the arc from the bible,which is not the true book.The bible have been rewritten from the Torah which is the true book.He should have depicted it from the Qoran, which re-reveils the truth.As for the atheist or non believers,they are only wondering away with their sick minds.Did'nt they think who made them & everything around them.

solomon said...

G.R.C
I like to give you some thoughts,
Who knows better about science,history or reality or whatever you can think of.
Is it God or You?
You have only live in this world for a few days.Don't challenge God who had created everything a long time ago.

solomon said...

EverlyAnn

What are you fussing about that stupid 'life boat of yours.
The arc is not ment for sailing.It will be static right there until your great great grand children.

Litl-Luther said...

Solomon,
I'm sorry to hear that you have been deceived into thinking that the Bible can't be trusted. Moreover, it is the Quran which cannot be trusted, for it does not exalt Jesus Christ. Rather it exalts Mohammad, who is a false prophet.

Jesus is the only way to God. Everyone who stands against Him is a liar.

solomon said...

EverlyAnn,
I have simple answer to your stupid question.

(Was is really necessary for Noah to bring mosquitos on that big old ship?)
Noah's does'nt have to bring the mosquitoes into his boat.The mosquitoes will willingly fly into his boat.Why?Coz there a lot of food in there(human & animal blood).They won't fly away.It's a heaven for them.Why fly away in the wilderness of the sea, where is nothing to rest their wings on.I think the mosquito is a better thinker than you.

solomon said...

Litl-Luther,
The BiBle exalt alot of things,
It even said God have a son.
How can a human being be of the same standard as God.(look similar to human)Luther think again, don't be deceived by the bible scholars who wrote it.I can't bear to you or every human angered by the real god,that is the god of moses,abraham,jesus(the real one)& mohammad

Litl-Luther said...

Solomon,
I beg to differ. God cannot be "The God of Jesus and of Mohammad" for Jesus said:

"False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand." (Matt. 24:24-25)

Jesus has labeled prophets that come after Him as false prophets. Mohammad came after Jesus, which makes him a false prophet. The choice you have is that either Mohammad is true and Jesus is a liar, or Jesus is true and Mohammad is a liar. They cannot both be true.

I believe in Jesus. Therefore I reject Mohammad as the false prophet, which is what Jesus called him.

solomon said...

Dear Luther,
Sorry for the late reply,just came back from lunch.
I'am not going into an argument,I'am just highlighting the truth so that everybody can benefit.

I agree there can't be two or more god.If there is let say only two god, there will be chaos, who will run the universe,agree?There will always be one god,that is the god of jesus(real)& also the god of mohammad.
Both jesus(real) & mohammad are also not liars.The liars are the scholars who rewrote the Torah to fit into the bible.

["False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand." (Matt. 24:24-25)]

I sort of agree with this phrase

[Jesus has labeled prophets that come after Him as false prophets. Mohammad came after Jesus, which makes him a false prophet.]

Where did you get this phrase?Is it your words or the words of the bible scholars.What'ts the proof to its genuinity?

I pity you and all the christians out there, you are all confused/being confused by your scholars.

Come back to the right path,its not too late.God is most mercifull,he will forgive you all.

Another thing you might wonder why I put the name Jesus & real in bracket.For your info and all out there the real Jesus or ISA the son of Mary or MARIAM is the true prophet.God saved him & took him to heaven when he was chased by disbelievers & replaced him by someone who looks like him.The man who is crucified is not Jesus.

I vow that both Jesus & Mohammad are true men,somebody else must be the liar.Study the Qoran,there is no loop holes in it.


Another thing Luther I admire your courage not to block my blog,maybe you are a true man but you're just confused.May god show you the right path

I may not be able to answere any blogs after this,because Iam at work,maybe some other days.

solomon said...

Sorry for still writing,I sort of having the urgh..

Michael

I agree with most of what you say.God might even have a better solution that what you can think of.
You maybe the man of truth,may god show you the way.It took an open,clean heart to support gods word & deeds.

solomon said...

Lorrenzothellama

You have the brains but you don't have the heart to think of simple matters.
For your info the Dungs will be simply thrown into the sea you scum.

Litl-Luther said...

Solomon,
I appreciate that for the most part, you come across as gentle. I also appreciate that you haven't blown yourself up yet.

One thing I would like to point out about the Quran, is that in it, Mohammad admits that he is a sinner. While also in the Quran it says that Jesus never sinned. Interesting to me that Muslims would make the sinner Mohammad the greatest prophet and make the sinless Jesus a lesser prophet.

The fact that Mohammad married one girl when she was only 6 years old and started having sex with her when she turned 9 years old is just another evidence of the evil in his heart.

Come to Jesus so that you can be saved, Solomon.

solomon said...

Hi Luther,
Too many lies about Mohammed have been pass on from generation to generation by his enemies and I don't blame you for that confusion, maybe because you have'nt yet found the truth.It seems that his enemies
have succeed in decorating their lies that looks good & real to the eyes of others.
For info Mohammad married his youngest bride when she was 14 & live like married couples when she was 19.One should get this true info only in the Qoran & Hadith(the prophet sayings).

Even if you believe that Mohammad start having sex with a 9 year old wife, what's the evil in that.It's his legitimate wife who have reached puberty.Mohammad does'nt go around like those phidophelias out there.
[One thing I would like to point out about the Quran, is that in it, Mohammad admits that he is a sinner.]
Where did you get this Luther?
Proof it to me Which Surah & paragraph if you are the man of truth or you must have misintepret its meaning.Both Mohammad & Jesus never sinned.
You might have all kinds of lies(supplied by your scholars) in store in your pocket,just to take it out in times of need but the Truth will always resurface.
On to this day marked my words,Ia'm sponsoring the truth.I get no return in sponsoring this.The return is only from Allah the almighty.

Lately this blog seem to be Litl Luther vs Solomon affair.Other bloggers are invited to join this forum.

solomon said...

Paul,
For your info Noah did live for 950 years & that is very simple for God to make it possible.Can't you see all the wonders(universe etc.) which is more difficult to make.

solomon said...

Hi Luther,
Too many lies about Mohammed have been pass on from generation to generation by his enemies and I don't blame you for that confusion, maybe because you have'nt yet found the truth.It seems that his enemies
have succeed in decorating their lies that looks good & real to the eyes of others.
For info Mohammad married his youngest bride when she was 14 & live like married couples when she was 19.One should get this true info only in the Qoran & Hadith(the prophet sayings).

Even if you believe that Mohammad start having sex with a 9 year old wife, what's the evil in that.It's his legitimate wife who have reached puberty.Mohammad does'nt go around like those phidophelias out there.
[One thing I would like to point out about the Quran, is that in it, Mohammad admits that he is a sinner.]
Where did you get this Luther?
Proof it to me Which Surah & paragraph if you are the man of truth or you must have misintepret its meaning.Both Mohammad & Jesus never sinned.
You might have all kinds of lies(supplied by your scholars) in store in your pocket,just to take it out in times of need but the Truth will always resurface.
On to this day marked my words,Ia'm sponsoring the truth.I get no return in sponsoring this.The return is only from Allah the almighty.

Lately this blog seem to be Litl Luther vs Solomon affair.Other bloggers are invited to join this forum.

Litl-Luther said...

Solomon,
I am quoting "The Islamic Voice"

http://www.islamicvoice.com/december.2002/living.htm

It is written by real Muslim, genuine believers in Mohammad, and they say, I quote:

"Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) used to seek repentance to Allah more than 70 times a day..."

So Mohammad sought repentance 70 times a day, but only people guilt of sin need to repent. Mohammad repented of his sins every day!! He was definitely a sinner (and most Muslims even agree with this fact).

The Islamic Voice gives this quote from Mohammad: “Oh people, turn to Allah in repentance and seek his forgiveness, for surely I make repentance one hundred times daily,” the Holy Prophet told his companions. “

There are MANY Islamic sites which mention Mohammad seeking repentance, such as this site"

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/purification/0003.htm

They write this about Mohammad's repentance: "This is why the Master of the Children of Adam, and the Leader of the Pious, Muhammad, sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam sought forgiveness in all circumstances. He said in an authentic hadeeth reported by al-Bukhari:

"O people, repent to your Lord, for verily I seek forgiveness from Allah and repent to him more than seventy times in a day."

But again I say, if Mohammad needed to repent, than Mohammad was a sinner.

Litl-Luther said...

Solomon,
Again, all I have to do is go to THE ISLAMIC SOURCES. They readily admit that Mohammad married Aisha when she was six years old and began having sex with her when she turned nine. Here is one of many Islamic sites which admits this fact:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

If you think it is okay to have sex with a nine year old child, there is something wrong with you. Girls on average do not reach puberity until they are past their 13th birthday. This is a scientific fact. Nine year olds do not reach puberity.

Mohammad is not only a false prophet (according to the real Jesus) and a sinner (according to himself), he is also a phedophile (someone who enjoys having sex with children)

Sorry I am not interested in a "prophet" like that. I'm sure Mohammad is in Hell where he belongs.

solomon said...

Dear Luther,
The reason why Mohammad seek repentance is not because he commit sins.This shows how dearly he fears Allah,fearing he might not realise his doings is still a sin or unrecognise to Allah's eyes,thats the reason he kept on repenting.This act have been used by his enemy in a desperate attempt to turn the table and looks as if he commit sins.

[Girls on average do not reach puberity until they are past their 13th birthday. This is a scientific fact. Nine year olds do not reach puberity.]
Thats what the scientists say.Theres no limit to what god can do.Jesus was born without a father.How do you or the scientist account for that?
[If you think it is okay to have sex with a nine year old child, there is something wrong with you.]
State your views if there is something wrong with me.
[I'm sure Mohammad is in Hell where he belongs.]
No matter what others thought of Mohammad,he & myself will always pray to Allah for you and all humans not to be burned in hell,coz he knows most of them have'nt find the right path.
One more thing, browsing a few islamic sites does not mean you have reached the final result of an issue.It has to undergo certain decipline of approach to that matter,so what you have in hand can be challenged.
In the name of Allah, the most loving & the most merciful.

solomon said...

Litl Luther
Where are you? Have you abandoned this site

Litl-Luther said...

Hi Solomon,
No. I haven't abandoned this site. I just don't put new posts that often.

Here's a challenge one man gave, which I would like to give you Solomon:
“If you do not believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, if you do not believe that the Bible is of a supernatural origin, then I challenge you to a test. I challenge you to go to any library in the world, you can choose any library you like, and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible. You must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, in an over 1500 year period, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents. However, each of the books must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, and the 66 books must not contradict one another and must contain ample historical facts.”

Find anything close to the Bible (as listed above) and I’ll eat my hat!! You won’t be able to do it because there is nothing out there like the Bible — including the Koran; it is nothing like the Bible. It doesn’t come close.

solomon said...

Hi Litl-Luther,
Even if I'am able to find the 66 books that you challenge me, that does not mean the 66 books beholds the truth & would not contradict.I have only to turn to 1 book, that is the holy Qoran,God's very own words.We need not to believe to the 66 books which is written by MEN.Collect all Scholars & Masters & geniuses of men,they could'nt even create a single phrase as the Qoran.
Luther,God said All the believers who read the "AL-KITAB" or true books like Torah,Zabur & Injil & Qoran,you are all in the right path & of the same religion as the religion of the Qoran or Mohammad.God does not mention Bible.Indeed the stories inside the Bible have some similarities with the AL-KITAB but with many twist.The twist that God angered most is treating others as God rather than only HIM.And that contradicts the simplest of logic.God is too pure to be having a son which looks like human.

solomon said...

Litl-Luther
I admire your courage by most of the time publish my comments while other Atheists sites have deleted them.May the one and only true God shows you the right path.I have more to share with you & the viewers.

Litl-Luther said...

Solomon,
You think this is an "Atheist site"? Now you sound like a nut, rather than a merely deceived person.

solomon said...

Oh Litl-Luther,
You have misunderstood my words.I gave you credit yet youre mad at me.I did'nt mention your site is the Atheists site.I repeat,I have been commenting on the other Atheists site,and they have deleted all my comments,thats all I said.While you have not deleted my comment on your site.Why are you accusing me into thinking that your site is an Atheists site?I have the feeling that I'am not welcomed to your site.In due respect, for the time being I will not comment on this site until I'am invited(if that makes you happy) But nevertheless Truth will always resurface and it will do in many other ways.

Litl-Luther said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Litl-Luther said...

Okay Solomon. I must have misunderstood you then. Feel free to write what you wish.

Know also that I believe in the One and Only True God, and He can be found only through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. There is no other way to Him but through Jesus. That truth (and my belief in that truth) will never change. Please be assured of that.

solomon said...

Litl-Luther,
A warm thank You for the invitation

mk007 said...

dear Litl-Luther
have you ever watched dinosoars and the gospel. it is a great dvd by ken ham. Check it out on Answers in Genesis website. You might like to add some dinosaurs to the ark?
mk

Anonymous said...

Nice, too bad that it dont float, if you wanna know why, check wikipedia for world longest wooden ships.

yale said...

Qual seria o custo da Arca naquela época em valores de hoje?

Tks

yale

Azri'el said...

Shalom b'Yahushuah, ha Mashiach, amein!! Thank you for your work, I am impressed. It does not matter that you did not use gophor wood,,the effort you put shall be honored to you by our Eloah Yahuah in the Heaven. Thank you and shalom!
Azri'el

Dorothy said...

I just wanted to say that what you have done is amazing.
It would make a one of a kind home.
Thanks for sharing.
Good luck.
Take care, Dorothy

National Velour said...

WOW! God bless you for taking on such a task, and what an amazing job you did!! It's beautiful and makes you feel like you're living history.